Earlier this week, I sat down with Tyrone Phillips, director of Nat Turner in Jerusalem, to explore the profound themes and historical significance of the play currently showing at American Players Theatre (APT) in Spring Green. Phillips shared the powerful narrative behind Nathan Allen Davis’ work, which captures Nat Turner’s final hours before his execution. We discussed the challenges and complexities of Turner’s story, the importance of representation both on and off the stage, and the challenge of offering a fresh perspective on a figure who has been portrayed many times over the years. The conversation also highlights Phillips’ journey as an artist, his commitment to anti-racism, and the work of his multicultural theater company, Definition Theatre. This Q&A has been edited for length and clarity; you can hear the entire interview on today’s edition of our weekly podcast, 365 Amplified.
Robert Chappell: Let’s start with this show. Tell us about Nat Turner in Jerusalem and what it looks like at APT.
Tyrone Phillips: Nat Turner in Jerusalem is written by Nathan Allen Davis, and basically captures the life of Nat Turner in his final hours. It starts on his last night in a holding cell in Jerusalem, Virginia, and it follows leading up until his last morning here on Earth before he is put to death on the gallows. Not only do we meet Nat Turner, but we meet Thomas Gray, who is the lawyer who is responsible for writing his confession, which is why we even know about Nat Turner today. A lot of the source material is basically from the confessions of Nat Turner … this play is poetic, moving, has a lot to do about faith, about identity, about America’s foundation and the institution of slavery and the reckoning of that as well. This piece really just brings humanity to this man who a lot of people were torn about.
RC: Nat Turner has been depicted throughout history, since 1831, in popular culture. In fact, this play was premiered in 2016, which also is when Nate Parker’s movie, Birth of a Nation about Nat Turner, came out. Why is this story so resonant? Why is this story important to keep telling it?
TP: I think it’s complicated. It is something that people have a hard time to deal with. Nat Turner was a prophet who received a vision of God to kill, to murder. And so I think that alone is something to struggle with. But it was holy vengeance. What’s different about this play is the integrity about it. There are a lot of things written about Nat Turner, but then there’s things that we don’t know, right? Some things could be fabricated, some things are all based off of a white lens. For Nathan to give us a lens, it shows this character, shows this person, his ups and downs, his struggle. And for that to be written by someone of color, I think, is important and necessary. And so this is one of the first pieces that actually does that.
RC: That’s so important because, people say all the time, history is written by the victors, right?
TP: That’s right.
RC: Even though a lot of the basis of what we know about Nat Turner is his own confessions, but that was elicited by this white lawyer, right? Much of what’s been created about him since then is by white folks. Maybe well meaning sometimes, but not always, accurate, right?
TP: That’s right. And just to say again about this responsibility and art. This comes up a lot: whose story is this? Who should be telling this story, and not just on stage but backstage. What is the design team? What is the people who are creating the world for this play? They influence the choices of this story. Representation on and off stage is something I committed my life to with my theater company, but also with this production. How do we shed light on a story that almost was hidden, if you will. It really could have easily been lost. And so I’m thrilled to come back to APT and have their audience, who I think is ready for this story.
RC: Let’s talk about Definition Theater. Can you tell us about that company? When did that start and why, and what are you trying to accomplish there in Chicago?
TP: Definition theater is a multicultural ensemble of artists, educators, practitioners who basically prioritize equity in the fine arts. The theater company started in 2012. I was a senior at the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign, and … we felt like we were great students. It was a classical training program. But we didn’t see people of color backstage, we didn’t see people of color on staffs. And so it quickly became apparent for us … you know, we put on a show. We produced The Brothers Size by Terrell Alper McCraney our senior year at our student-run theater, and we became producers. We had to find our design team, we had to find the director, we had to find the ushers, all the things that it takes to actually put on a play. That was the impetus. We said we want to play characters that are larger than life. We don’t want to play a thug or a cop or a robber. We wanted to play gods, right? That allowed us to do it. And that’s when we quickly realized not only in Chicago, but nationally, there’s a problem about people of color being allowed to be on stage, but not backstage. We’re not the directors, we’re not the stage managers, we’re not in decision-making roles. So the company was born first out of actors, and then formed to include educators, designers. And now we’re in Chicago, on the south side of Chicago. We have a storefront in Hyde Park, and then we’re in a capital campaign as well to build a new theater in Woodlawn, a South Side community of Chicago.
RC: That’s gotta be daunting.
TP: It’s incredibly daunting, and incredibly invigorating. It’s the dream. We’re hoping that it’ll be a training ground for the next generation of artists on the south side of Chicago. It is daunting, but we’re looking at how theater can revitalize communities, be a true part of community development. And you know, whether it be on stage, off stage, we have an entrepreneur incubator, a community center.
RC: So having been now immersed in that intentionally multicultural space for more than 10 years, what have you gained from that experience that you bring to Nat Turner in Jerusalem and to Spring Green, Wisconsin, which is a very different community?
TP: It’s real. It’s real. I would say, you know, even from my high school, (students) spoke over 60 languages when I was in high school. So this is a question that I think about all the time, what makes me different, but also what makes me have a career in the arts? Why do I care to use my talents here? We know there’s problems in our world. We know America’s foundation was built on mess, right? There’s a lot of blood and guts and gore, and we don’t like to talk about it, and it’s complicated. And so what I love is that all of my work at Definition (Theater) and this play is about what does it mean to be anti racist, right? That word scared some people a couple of years ago, but now we’re finally seeing it be embraced. But what does that mean? It really just means being aware of the systems that were in place to hold someone down, no matter what the color is. I think it is a shame that racism has lasted so long. It’s an easy mechanism, and it’s worked. And so for me, figuring out how to share cultures is part of the solution. Figuring out how to remove fear of the other is part of the solution. Looking at how to celebrate each other. I think again, this play is like a monument to Nat Turner. And so I think we won already by having the audience buy their ticket, come to the show. As soon as those lights go down, we’ve already won.
RC: What do you hope the audience takes away from the show? What do you want people talking about on the drive home?
TP: I think, one, just to know who Nat Turner is. I think we hear the name, we know kind of sort of what he was about. I think we already won by them coming to the theater and the fact that you spent time to watch this man and wrestled with this man’s life … I hope the audience comes and they meet the man, Nat Turner, and think about him in a real humanistic way. And I also think this play is gonna save some souls. Man, crazily enough to say out loud, it’s this battle about, what is man made and what is God’s will, and how do we answer and respond to those things?
RC: Can you delve into your background a little bit more? What are some of your favorite roles that you’ve played, that you remember?
TP: Man. The favorite roles I played are the roles that change my mind about theater, right? Change the way I think about a certain person or a certain character. I would say I was challenged a lot early on in my career. My favorite roles though … Lysander in Midsummer Night’s Dream. I love Shakespeare, the poetry and rhythm. In Hoodoo Love, there was a character, Ace (of Spades), a blues musician. That was really amazing. And even in high school, playing Othello, playing Marvin in Falsettoland, you know, things that sometimes I didn’t think I would be capable of, it was amazing, rising to the occasion. And those characters taught me something about myself.
RC: You did Othello in high school?
RP: I was a senior. It was the last show. Man the anticipation, being one of the few students of color in the program. When they announced it, I was like, oh, man, I gotta study about my Shakespeare. Get ready.
RC: Had you done Shakespeare before that?
TP: I’d done smaller parts, but that was the biggest undertaking. Personally in my career, Shakespeare, classical works, was the thing that I felt most challenged, the most far away from. Whatever my environment was, I was just taught, (Shakespeare is) not for you. That’s why I chose the University of Illinois, because it was a classical training program. It’s where I felt the weakest as an artist. And so after tackling that fear, I was lucky enough to also study abroad at Shakespeare’s Globe in my summer between junior and senior year of college. And so that confidence and that ownership started to take place then.
RC: At what point in high school did you decide, like, “I’m actually good at this, I could do this for a living?”
TP: Junior year, I’ll never forget it. I was behind a curtain. I’ll never forget. Before a show started, I was behind the curtain, before making my first entrance, and I really thought about the power that theater has. Of empathy, right? And putting yourself in someone else’s shoes and if we do our jobs right and we tell the right stories, we actually can change minds. We can change the way people live their lives. And so I took it pretty seriously. I’m doing shows that I hope will not only just ask hard questions of our audience, but will change the way they move, (the way) they make decisions, make them think twice a little bit. Super excited, man, to be back at APT.
RC: I want to talk a little bit about APT too. APT, when I was a kid, was Shakespeare. Summer Shakespeare. It was repertory, almost like a Shakespeare Festival, but in Spring Green, Wisconsin. Not a lot of diversity on stage or anywhere. But the company has evolved and is still doing Shakespeare, obviously, but also is doing work like this and more modern works and more non Shakespeare sort of classical works. When did you when did you become aware of APT? Were you ever aware of it as a Shakespeare company?
TP: Yeah, I was actually studying at U of I and was fortunate enough to have (APT artistic director) Brenda (DeVita) come and talk to us. At the time, her concerns were about people of color, and, you know, making sure that people APT as a place that was also on par and up to date. Really taking diversity, inclusion and accessibility seriously. When I first met Brenda and heard about APT, it was so interesting to hear of this theater in the woods, right. It sounded so magical. And even now, it still has that feeling. Sometimes when you walk out of the lobby … “Wow, you know, what a beautiful place. What a gift to work here.” I heard about APT, and then came and saw some shows immediately, and stayed in touch. After graduating and after starting Definition and doing some work, Brenda and I reconnected, and it was quick and easy to say yes after visiting and seeing just what this community is, what this audience is. They’re ready to be challenged, that was my biggest thing. I’m not coming to fight anyone. But I’m here to actually help push the needle forward. I’m thrilled to be back. I feel like this is a retreat for me. It is nice to get away from the hustle and bustle of Chicago, the city life. It is nice to come here. I see APT as a place to rejuvenate and to reconnect,
RC: We should mention Nat Turner in Jerusalem opened last night, it runs through November 10, but it’s in the Touchstone Theater, the indoor theater. Don’t feel like you’re going to be sitting out in the cold.
TP: (The Touchstone Theater) is so tight, it’s intimate and for stories like these, works so well. You get a closer look at these lives. The last show I did at American Players Theater last season was The Royale. And that was a powerful production … it was in your face. It was close. You needed to see the actors up close. I think this one is no different.
RC: One of the reviews of the early performances several years ago in New York Times describe this play as inert, but I don’t think it meant that in a negative way. It’s just one location, two guys, and you just spend that time with them. How do you do you approach that kind of play differently than you would a play that’s got a whole big plot and big cast?
TP: Alittle bit, but not really. … It’s still about Nat Turner … And not knowing if his work was done on Earth or not really is a big center of it. A lot happens in this one room, and I think it’s actually fascinating for us to search through the whole human existence and the experience of emotions in Turner’s final hours.
RC: And you do that in one room, and also in a relatively compact period of time. It’s an hour (and) 10 (minutes), no intermission.
TP: it does move. I think the audience will be surprised at how fast it does feel as well.
RC: But it packs a lot in that to that hour.
TP: You’ll be moved. What’s interesting is … the humor that still comes across. There are times that you’ll laugh, but I also do promise there are times that your heart will be in your throat.
RC: Are you headed back to Chicago? What’s next for you?
TP: I will. After opening, I’ll be back in Chicago. I’ll be getting ready to do the Chicago premiere of Fat Ham by James Ijames. It is a comedy, kind of an update on Shakespeare’s Hamlet. It was a big hit in New York. It had a great run. And so I’m excited to produce the Chicago premiere with some great Chicago artists coming up.
RC: Tyrone, thanks for being with us today.
TP: I appreciate you. Thanks for having me.
Nat Turner in Jerusalem runs through November 10. Tickets are available at americanplayers.org.
